right now on andrea mitchell report, the president arriving in michigan today drumming up is the for his tax the rich plan, as his aides say he thinks he and john boehner will reach an agreement to avoid the fiscal cliff. >> there is a growing group of folks that are looking at this and realizing that we don't have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue before year end. i mean, we have one house, that's it. the presidency and the senate and the democrats' hands. >> coming up, here congressman chris van holland, the top house democrat in these talks. >> along with bill daley, the former white house chief of staff who prided over the last round of budget negotiations. in the meantime, the anti-union fight, which is michigan. the heart and soul of the labor movement. after saying it was their best prank ever, are these crocodile tears? the aussie dj's are all apologies now that the nurse has tragically committed suicide.

>> i mean, personally i'm -- >> the thought that we may have played a part in that is gut wrenching. >> and speaking of tears, "saturday night live" spoofed the fiscal cliff talks this week in that opening skit. president obama says he is giving in to republicans to save boehner face. >> you know what, republicans, you win, okay? you get what you want, but you lee had man alone. you leave this poor, orange man alone. you okay? >> yeah. >> i can't hear you. >> yes, yes. >> there he is. >> good day. i'm andrea mitchell live in washington. well, there they were side-by-side, and for real they were in the white house this weekend. president obama taking his message of middle class tax cuts and tax increases for the rich to detroit today. just as michigan is facing a big

vote against union organizing in a state long identified with the labor movement. joining me now for our daily fix, msnbc contributor and managing editor of "post politics.com". good day to you. well, first of all, the labor movement really on the ropes now in michigan of all places. michigan where detroit, of course, was the heart of the auto movement, the auto union, and now you've got a vote -- final vote is tomorrow as the president is being greeted by rick snyder, the governor, who says he will sign that, and to union right to work legislation. what does that really mean? >> well, so what you have here, this is something that's passed in 20 plus states. what it essentially says is you do not have to pay union dues in order to be employed. unions view it as a direct attack on their -- the power of organized labor, which comes at least, in part, politically speaking from union dues. look, here's the issue. the state senate and the stais statehouse have both passed

this. they have to pass the other ones, and then rick snyder, we expect, to sign it. one thing that's interesting, ohio, something similar happened, and you saw a ballot initiative that actually repealed the right to work legislation. that's not likely to happen here because in the state constitution you can't repeal a spending bill, ask there was an appropriation, a spending measure, attached to this legislation. so it's going to be harder to overturn it. that doesn't mean people won't protest. it dent mean it won't become a national story, as it's already becoming, but getting it repealed or at least even the process of repeeling could be a lot more difficult. >> now, the president today in michigan is still doing the public campaigning, and this is beginning to pay off. you see real negotiations taking place. what do we know happened at the white house between the president and speaker boehner this weekend? >> we don't know all that much

because they put out statements that said literally the exact same thing. it was a good conversation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. i think what's more important, andrea, is look what happened with bob corker. you played it. the tennessee republican senator essentially saying, look, we don't have a lot of leverage here. this is something you're starting to hear more and more. tom coburn said something similar. tom cole said something similar. we have to take what we can get. we're innocent a great bargaining position. if that means higher rates, so be it. if we can extract a promise on entitlement -- on specific entitlement cuts. that's the sort of big if. president obama has not done anything in temz of offering specifics on what the $400 billion in entitlement cuts will be. i assume that number would have to be higher for republicans to sign on to it. if you are looking at sort of the optics of all this, andrea, it would suggest a relatively united democratic front, and a splintering and likely to splinter the closer we get to december 21st republican side. >> i think the fact that they

put out similar talking points, the white house and the speaker, tells you a lot that they are coming a lot closer. thank you very much. >> it seems like we're moving towards a deal. the perimeters of which we don't know yet, but we kind of suspect it will be some kind of rate increase on the wealthy as well as some promise on the entitlement cut side. we're not sure the sort of extent of that? >> that -- >> educated guess. >> that's the big question. that is our question, thank you very much for the top democrat on the house budget committee is expressing some optimism that a deal can be had to avert tax hikes and massive spending cuts. chris van holland joining us from the capitol. thank you very much, congressman. >> good to be with you. >> do we know nothing from the secret talks? >> well, we don't know a lot, andrea, but you presented it very well in that lead-in there. there are a couple of things that have changed. number one, you now have the face-to-face meetings between the president, the speaker of the house. that's obviously good news. always better than not talking.

sending, you have this growing awareness on the part of congressional republicans that their earlier position was unsustainable. the idea that they would allow the economy to go down the tubes, allow tacks to go up on virtually every american all in order to protect the bonus tax breaks for high income earners. more and more republicans are recognizing that that's not sustainable. so that's moving us in the right direction, and hopefully we can get it done by the end of the month. >> now, the end of the month, the calendar does matter here because there are house and senate rules that require certain numbers of days for reading. you can suspend rules with all sets of consents, but you may not have the kind of consent unanimously to do that in various houses. how quickly do you need to move ahead with a deal to get it done before the end of the calendar year? >> well, are you exactly right. i mean, even if you were to reach an agreement in principle, you have to, you know, get the specifics agreed to.

then you have to put it on paper. you have to allow members of congress a chance to review it. look, i would say for the end of the year then you are talking about having to have something done by christmas, but the sooner the better. we all know that. that's why people are pushing hard, and i hope we can get it done by the end of december. if not, my belief is you would get it done very soon thereafter, but everybody is very focused, andrea, on trying to get it done by the end of december. the one thing i would say with respect to the cuts, because that was mentioned in the lead-up is if you actually look at the president's proposal, he has been very specific about the cuts he is recommending. in fact, far more specific in terms of both how he would achieve those cuts as well as how he would achieve the revenue than speaker boehner, who simply put a bunch of numbers on a piece of paper and has mentioned a couple of specifics, but not nearly enough by way of specifics in either cutting or

revenue to show how he would get to an agreement. >> congressman, one of the things that was somewhat -- was floated by dick durbin on "meet the press" yesterday was the possibility of changing the retirement age. i mean, that was one of the things discussed. another is changing the way the cost of living on social security is computed. what is the likelihood of either of those two things happening? >> well, i think the president has been very clear that there are a lot better ways to achieve savings many medicare than simply passing along the risk and burden of higher costs on to medicare beneficiaries, which is where the president has laid out a number of ways to save medicare by building money in medicare, by building on the approach we took in the affordable care act. he also has very specific provisions asking for higher rebates for pharmaceutical companies, to people who are both on medicare and medicaid. the republican definition of reform seems to be simply

passing on these rising health care costs on to the backs of seniors, whose median income, by the way, is under $22,000. that's about the median income of a senior on medicare. that is the difference in approaches. republicans want to pass on rising health care costs. the president wants to contain costs for the system overall. >> you could delay the -- you could make it 67 instead of 65 and means test that, and that would obviate the problem for people who really need it and people who are caught in that gap. let me ask you about the payroll tax and some of the other tax changes. is there a way that the irs doesn't -- that you can change the computing on the withholding if it isn't done by the ebtd of the year? is there any way that the executive branch can delay the way the withholding is changed if you are in progress or close to reaching an agreement? >> yes. my understanding is that the secretary of treasury, secretary geithner, has the authority to delay the resetting of the

withholding tables, at least for some period of time, so if we were in the middle of negotiations and it looked like they were going to conclude, then the secretary could do exactly as you say, and that would mean that taxpayers wouldn't immediately see more money withheld from their checks, which is exactly what they would see if we went over the fiscal cliff altogether, you know, for the full year. >> so better than 50-50 chance that you are going to get a deal, congressman? >> yeah. no, i think so. it is a better than 50-50 chance, and there is a very good chance that we would be able to avoid a lot of the fiscal cliff. as you know, republicans have talked about the very least extending the middle class tax cuts, taking up that piece of legislation. it would be better if we could deal with all of the issues as part of an agreement, but even republicans, lots of them, are

saying, you know, worst case scenario, they would pass the middle class tax cut extension, which is a significant component of the fiscal cliff. it's not all of it, because you also have the see quester. you also have the payroll tax cut extension issue. of course, you have the president's jobs initiatives which he has proposed as part of an effort not just to maintain the current level of economic activity, but to increase it and put more people back to work. best case scenario is we get an agreement that resolves all those issues as well as the debt ceiling, but at the very least i think we would avoid big pieces of the fiscal cliff. thanks for joining us today. >> good to be with you. >> what will come from the closed door meeting between the president and speaker pain every wresh we'll talk with bill daley, former chief of staff for president obama. an historic day for girls day worldwide. in honor of malala, the pakistani teen shot by the

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president obama and house speaker john became trying to negotiate a grand bargain. what can we learn from their failure in 2011 to help us predict whether they can do it better this time around? joining us is bill daley, former chi of staff to president obama and commerce secretary during the clinton years. thanks very much. great to see you again, bill. well, the word that they -- >> nice to see you again. >> the word that they finally got together one-on-one this weekend, how important is that that they cleared the room of all their seconds? >> i think it's extremely important. we are down to the final three weeks, and as the congressman said, there's a lot to be done in the short period. these are complicated issues. i know a lot of times we want to

simplify them, but the fact that the two principles, and it really is the president and the speaker, who will do this deal, spent some time alone having seen the two of them in the past when we went through the 2011 negotiations, they have respect for each other. they like each other. they will be able to do a deal together. i think the meeting yesterday was extremely important. is this a nonstarter for the white house? >> well, i'm not obviously speaking on behalf of the white house, so i think it is -- there are always the options and especially when you are down to the final three weeks. i think the markets and i think the american people would be disappointed if there isn't a framework that really gives a road to a long-term economic recovery by virtue of dealing with the long-term fiscal

problems and our debt, which is a serious problem, obviously. we need revenue, and we need a lot of revenue, and we also need cuts, and we need this to be done shortly to give the country and the world confidence that our system can work again. i think that's why it's important. the president and speaker have gotten together because they really are the two principal people here. >> you've been through this before as the white house chief of staff. can you explain the delay and the way the president has been clearly trying to make a decision between john kerry and susan rice and susan rice is hanging out there now, and everyone -- all of her critics are taking shots at her. is there any reason to want to try to move this more quickly, the cabinet selection? what goes on behind the scenes here? >> i would take some exception with the way you describe it, andrea. look, these are important decisions. john kerry, senator kerry, and ambassador rice are extremely well qualified. obviously, there's been a lot of news around the ambassador over

the last number of months by virtue of them benghazi situation. she is extremely well qualified. the president knows that. he is not iffing to be forced into a decision by virtue of the chatter that's out there in the street and the politics, and i think he is going about it in a deliberate way. there are a lot of other issues also going on that he deals with on a daily basis that are very real-time, and you also have the fiscal cliff problem. he i don't feel has the secretary of state who has said she will stay in in national hockey league a replacement is there. it is normal to get that done right before the inauguration. he has a lot of team because both of these people's, senator kerry or ambassador rice, are fully vetted. they've been around for a while. people know them. they know the sort of things they've said and the records pretty clear and public, so either one of them can move pretty quickly through the process because they both have been vetted and been so high profile and public over a long period of time. >> is -- you don't think that she's been damaged by people -- by all of these hits she's had

to endure without having the full defense that you would have if you were a nominee? plus, the fact that this would open a whole benghazi investigation. >> as you know, andrea, there is a commission that's reporting soon to the secretary of state on benghazi, but, as you know, once a nominee is named, you basically go into a very silent period, so if either ambassador rice or senator kerry were nominated, they would have to go into a very quiet period, and until the actual hearing took place, which probably wouldn't take place in january anyway, there would be no comment, no visibility by either one of them. i don't think that's so much of an issue because neither one of them would be out there doing some defense of themselves or some arguments against them. it would allow the chattering class to let loose once either one of them is nominated with the pluses and minuses of either one of them, but as far as their own individual involvement, they wouldn't be able to be visible to the actual hearing anyways.

>> and speaking of the secretary of state who you say would be willing to stay on until a successor is confirmed, hillary clinton, now, a week ago, there was an extraordinary video at the savan forum here that looked like a campaign video with endorsements from, you know, all sorts of people. tony blair and benjamin netanyahu, and it's very clear that her popularity is extraordinary. what about hillary clinton as the candidate in 2016 and joe biden has made it very clear he would like to run, so is this shaping up to a battle between biden and clinton? i know it's very far out, and you know politics better than anyone. >> it is very far out. >> the fact -- >> auz know -- >> she's got all this going for her right now. >> well, conventional wisdom generally gets disproven, but as the secretary clinton knows better than anyone, but there's no question, she has been on a roll for good reason. she's been extremely successful as secretary of state. she is someone who is known and

respected around the world, so she has done a remarkable job, and she's done it in a way after a very tough campaign in 2008 that really is a best of what american politics can be about and should be about. that is, after a tough election, you move on to do what's right for the country, and she's done that. i don't think there's any limit to her potential, and that's going without saying based upon what she's succeeded at. on the other hand, you know, this is a very personal decision, as she knows better than anyone, because she's been through it, and she's lived the life very advise ivisible, very. i think she deserves time to reflect on things and enjoy life more than she's been able to over the last number of years. the vice president is also extremely well liked, well known throughout the democratic party, and as a primary candidate, if that was his choice, he would be also strong, but there are a lot of number of other governors and other elected officials that are coming up that i think will want

to be involved in the next presidential election, but it is a long way out, and we ought to at least get through the holiday season and enjoy life a little more than talking about campaigns again. >> well, at the same time, there is a down side because if she wants to keep her options open, there are certain kinds of roles she can't play. she has to avoid, you know, some economic connections. she's got to, you know, keep herself in the mode of being a potential presidential candidate. >> yeah, but there's no question. she has lived the life to be cautious so that the public, which has and respects her, so she's lived the life that's been one that's very aware of what you just laid out. i don't think there's any question about that. i think she will be cautious not just because of a potential 2000 election possibility, but just because that's the way they live their lives, the clintons, and so i think she will continue to do the right thing in private. she is dedicated her life to

helping people, and i think she will continue to do that and our nation and around the world. this is a lady -- this is a woman who is unbelievably well known and respected around the world by leaders and lots of people are going to call on her for help and assistance and direction, and i think that's a good thing for america, and as i say, i look at her tenure at secretary of state, but the thing that stands out for me is the fact that she took after a very tough election the obligation of being on the president's team and being part of trying to help the country, and that's what's the best about politics, and i think hillary clinton represents that. it was a sacrifice to leave the senate. some people would say that you have a lot more freedom in the senate, and it's obviously a lot easier life than being secretary of state. she did it for the country, and i think that's remarkable and should still be admired and thanked by the american people. >> well, we have to leave it there. thank you very much, bill daley. good to see you again.

>> happy holidays. >> you too. what to do about syria? the rebel with ties to al qaeda and the threat of chemical weapons. general barry mcafterry joining me next. plus, the sudden and shock death of lat everybody music star jenni rivera still ahead. new trident layers juicy berry + tangy tangerine is a thrilling, dual-flavored ride to mouth fun-town. but it's not like everyone is going to break into a karaoke jam session. ♪ this will literally probably never happen. ♪ progressive direct and other car insurance companies? yes. but you're progressive, and they're them. yes. but they're here. yes. are you...? there? yes. no. are you them? i'm me. but those rates are for... them. so them are here. yes! you want to run through it again? no, i'm good. you got it? yes. rates for us and them -- now that's progressive.

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a rescue operation saved -- today the defense department identified the seal as 28-year-old nicolas check, a highly decorated combat veteran. he was killed while rescuing dr. joseph, an american doctor doing relief work who was kidnapped by the taliban last week. general barry mccaffrey, military analyst, joins me now from new york. thank you very much, general mccaffrey. the tragedy for this navy s.e.a.l., let's talk about the rescue operations. the president apparently made this decision because they had information that indicated that

the doctor was at risk of being killed by the taliban. >> yeah. well, it's a comment on our incredibly sophisticated intelligence keepability, among other things. they're able to read these situations to quickly and locate the kidnappers and then get a plan of action and, of course, those navy s.e.a.l.s and army's delta force and the army specialized aviation helicopters and air force are an incredible tool, andrea. a lot of these special ops guys, including these navy s.e.a.l.s, many of them are on ten or 12 or 15 combat deployments since the start of this war. they're incredibly experienced, courageous, and competent. >> terrible tragedy for the loss of the s.e.a.l. and his family. i want to talk about syria because the president has issued a red line last week against any use of chemical weapons, but according to our roshgt from richard engel and others, the rebels in the field are not

taking it very seriously, because they don't think that there is really a military option. what would be the military option if there were any use of chemical weapons by the assad regime? >> well, you know, it's not a situation -- i've been an expert on chemical warfare for 25 years. they don't work very well at all against well trained, well equipped military forces, such as our own. having said that, if these weapons were used against syrian civilian populations to include the rebels, it could be devastating. the vx nerve agent are enormously lethal and almost impossible to deal with it if you don't have the technology both protective gear as well as anecdotes if you are exposed. you know, i think assad is about to go down catastrophically here in the coming year.

he has -- the army is going to turn on him. it will be tempting for him -- he has already murdered 40,000 people -- to use these chemical weapons during the final days. >> is there anything that the united states can do to carry out the president's threat to -- that there will be consequences against assad and his regime if he were to do this is this. >> i think the threat of u.s. airpower is enormous. when we put the u.s. naval air carrier to the syrian armed forces and the u.s. air force, it would be their end within 90 days, so i think there's a huge deterrent capacity from the president's announcement. if he uses chemicals, we could go after his delivery system. if we could go after the -- i heard a discussion, you couldn't really bomb them because you would set them off. that's what we do. we go after them with very hot munition to try and destroy them before they were used. do we really know where they are, have they moved them, consealed them? it's a tough target. >> one more question.

al misra, this group that is alive with al qaeda in iraq, the u.s. is set to designate that as a terror organization, but among the rebel leaders, they, like al misra because they are openly the al qaeda leaders are openly recruiting there among the rebels. how does this complicate hillary clinton's task this week going to mare concern and preparing to designate a rebel group as the new interim operational leaders. >> well, tough to sort through. i mean, secretary clinton is just a magnificent diplomat and will put a face on our policy that seems acceptable to our own principles. having said that, i have always thought we don't pick winners and losers very effectively in a situation like this. we should be supporting the insurgency and then sort out the next set of terrible problems that will eminate when assad goes down. >> barry mccaffrey, thanks so much. general, always good to see you.

meanwhile, the australian radio djs speak out about the prank that went horribly wrong. plus, a big honor for malala today in paris after she gets a special visitor at her hospital bedside this weekend. sdlirchlgts and this just in. the white house tweets out a picture of president obama watching video of david axlerod shaving off his mustache to raise money for epilepsy research. ♪ it's so important to make someone happy ♪ when you give a child a toy, it has to work. ♪ make just one someone happy and when it's a toys for tots child, well, what could be more important? so this year, every hasbro toy donated to toys for tots will be powered by duracell. happy holidays. duracell with duralock. trusted everywhere.

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plus a powerful decongestant. zyrtec-d® lets me breath freer, so i can love the air. [ male announcer ] zyrtec-d®. behind the pharmacy counter. no prescription needed. the australian radio dj's behind that prank call to the hospital where the duchess of cambridge was being treated last week, well, they broke their silence today. the radio personalities said that they were "heartbroken and gutted over the death of the nurse" who first took their call. they expected to be hung up on and called it a simple harmless phone call. the show has been canceled. >> i'm so devastated for them. i'm really feeling for them. >> it's a shocking turn of

events. >> i just couldn't -- if we had any idea that something like this could have be even possible to happen, you know, we couldn't see this happening. it was meant to be a prank call. >> they bragged about the prank being so successful. in paris today the courageous pakistani team malala was honored at an event. in honor of her work advocating for the rights of girls, the government of pakistan contributed $10 million to a new fund furthering malala's cause. she's still recovering in a british hospital after being shot in the head by a taliban gunman who targeted her for her advocacy work, and today's event, a young yemen girl read a statement on malala's behalf. >> my dream is to see all children, especially girls, going to school to be educated. i dream of a peaceful world where all human beings are accommodating and tolerant. i wish to see equality and justice for all men and women. >> and as you just saw, the

president of pakistan visited malala in her birmingham hospital. she's in london joining us and was in paris for the ceremony. well, so much has happened to malala, but let's talk, first of all, about her health. how is her recovery? >> we heard from the president who visited her this weekend in hospital that she is doing well. she's continuing her recovery. we know she's had some procedures recently, minor things, to correct some nerve damage. she still has not had the most serious surgery, which will be the cranial reconstructive surgery to replace part of the skull that they removed earlier. we expect that might happen in the next few weeks, but all sources close to her say that she's continuing to ror well and still has a long road ahead. >> and hillary clinton has been such a big supporter of hers, as has gordon brown, the former prime minister and others leaders around the world issued a statement, a video statement, on behalf of malala today on u.n. human rights day. >> today we stand together with malala and the millions of other

girls and women who literally risk their lives to get an education. getting an education is important to the future of every girl. it's also important for awful us collectively because when men and women have the same opportunities for education, societies are better off, economies flourish. >> this, of course, has been one of hillary clinton's issues for decades, but malala really symbolizes the struggle and how dangerous it is for girls and women in pakistan and other parts of the world still advocating for basic human rights. >> that's absolutely true. of course, the whole day was organized in her name, but really it was an effort that was intended to get the international community to mobilize behind some of these global education targets. really trying to get them to say we will meet these in the next three years, and also we're going to commit the money to be able to do so. one of those targets is, of course, being able to get over 60 million school-aged children around the world who are currently not enrolled, enrolled

in the next three years and attending. as you mentioned, the president of pakistan did pledge $10 million towards that efforts towards reform in his country. it's very necessary there. the education gap is quite apparent in pakistan. the country currently ranks close to the bottom when it comes to global education attendance rankings, but also a piece of good news from pakistan. the two girls who are with malala when she was injured, we have poken to them recently. they were also shot and injured. they have now recovered. they are back in school. they sent malala their well wishes, and they are determined to get their education. andrea. >> thank you so much for the update from london. president obama has not yet made his decision about his choice to replace hillary clinton leaving suszan rice and john kerry both dangling in the wind. for rice this ahas opened the door for critics to pile on with no bhous defense since she is still officially not a nominee. michael hamlin, director of

research for the foreign policy -- michael, i know you worked with susan, and was her spirit and what can her defenders do since she is not officially a nominee? it's awfully hard to -- for her to mount a defense. >> hi, andrea. those of us who are also admirers of john kerry have a complex position, but i think they're goet both amazing american patriots and have done a great deal of good for the country. either one would be excellent. i guess the specific thing i would contribute today on this topic is to object to the argument that was made in the "new york times" op ed page this morning by an activist who suggested that susan rice has been too friendly to various african strongmen, and the op ed did not resonate very well with me at first, but i went in and did some more research to go through the les of the people that this author listed as people that rice had supported too much, and they happen to have run five of the dozen or 15 best countries in africa over the last decade in terms of their economic performance, and

their internal stability. it doesn't mean that everything is perfect, obviously, and i'm sure ambassador rice wouldn't suggest that everything is perfect in countries like uganda, and rwanda and ethiopia and south africa, but nonetheless, there's been progress in all these places, and we sometimes had to work with people who weren't perfect, but this author made it sound as if she was somehow guilty by association with anything they did wrong, and somehow had picked the wrong people to try to work with. i thought it was an absurd argument, and it sort of contributes to the same tone we've been hearing the last few weeks. >> well, there have been all these things coming out that people have been lobbing her way, and does this need to be resolved one way or the other? the president now we're told might even wait several more weeks before making decisions, not clear whether that's going to take place, but meanwhile, you have john kerry, who is going to be holding hearings on benghazi. hillary clinton is going to be testifying when that report comes out. we expect it by next week at the latest. that is the investigative panel, which will be turned over to the senate and house foreign affairs

and foreign relations committees. he has a role to play as well, as susan rice does at the u.n. >> you know, my expectation, andrea, is that further scrutiny on benghazi will obviously show that the united states government did not make its best set of decisions on protecting the consulate in benghazi, but that ambassador rice had very little to do with those decisions, and i think what role she played in this controversy is already well known and has to do with one particular weekend in september. people have already formed their opinions on that. obviously, she didn't pick every word perfectly in those television appearance on sunday, september 16th, but i thought the gist of her messages was generally about right, but in any event, not malicious, and not mandacious, but the benghazi issue won't affect her in a big way, i don't think. that is to say, it's not going to affect her any more than it already has, based on this upcoming hearing. a couple more weeks of delay, you know, it may be just as well. it may allow passions to sort of calm on all sides. it may allow for the president to think through what he is

going to do with cia director, with national security advisor, if any changes coming there, and maybe by presenting a whole team, including a new defense secretary nominee at the same time. some of the attention from this back and forth in a more partisan sense can be deflected in a more positive direction. >> thank you very much. michael, thanks for giving us real perspective on that op ed from the "new york times". appreciate that vemp. >> thank you, andrea. the music world has suffered a nuj loss overnight. cross border singing sense station jenni rivera died when a small private jet carrying her and members of her entourage crashed in northern mexico. called the diana ross of mexican music, rivera was a hero among latin women and major player in a genre of music dominated by men. not only did she sell more than 20 million records, but her empire included radio and tv. her reality tv show on telemundo's sister network mundoz elhave aed her to

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bruising, bleeding, or paleness. if you've had enough, ask your dermatologist about enbrel. the supreme court could be issuing rulings by next summer that is groundbreaking for gay marriage rights as roe v. wade was for abortion in the 1970s, potentially at least after they agreed hear arguments on the defense of marriage act and proposition 8. justice correspondent pete williams joins me. pete, the fact that they took both of these cases, what is the significance from your analysis? >> well, it's the prop 8 case, andrea, that could be the biggy. it could be very narrow. the doma case has a very straight forward question. is it constitutional for a federal law to say that the government will not recognize marriages even when they're legal in the states, so that if married couples get married in the nine states where it's now legal, the federal government doesn't recognize those marriages. there's a question about whether

that's unconstitutional discrimination, but if the supreme court does strike down doma, it doesn't say anything about whether the states must permit same-sex marriage, it only says if they do, the federal government must recognize them. so it's the proposition 8 case from california that potentially raises the bigger question. now, as it comes to the supreme court, it comes in a very narrow way. the court of appeals, which agreed with the trial court, that proposition 8 striking down gay marriage in california was unconstitutional, it ruled in a very narrow way. it said california was wrong to grant the right and then take it away. you can't do that, apeeldz court said. if the supreme court upholds that ruling, it would apply only to california, but it's possible having taken the case that they could get to the bigger issue about whether any state can deny same-sex couples the right to get married. >> pete williams, thank you so much. joining me now is chad griffin, with the human rights campaign, and the organizer initially of the legal challenge to california's prop 8, banning same-sex marriage before coming to the human rights campaign to

lead that. chad, first of all, there was a division in the community as to whether to take this appeal because you're risking everything now if the court and it is a conservative led court, if they overturned that appeals court ruling, then that ban could be very broadly read. >> this case is so simple. a fundamental constitutional right was being violated in california. california had granted the right. the state supreme court had granted the right of marriage equality, and so couples across that state, loving and committed couples, began to get married. then a political campaign came along and took away that right. that's not something we allow in this country. we don't allow a popular vote of the people to take away a fundamental constitutional right, and the two couples that brought this case ultimately, chris and sandy, and paul and jeff, simply wanted the right to be able to marry the person that they love, and for their families to have the same recognition as their neighbors, and that's why this case is so

simple. i do believe it was the right time, and i am confident, i am optimistic that once the court hears this case and sees the evidence that was preblted at trial, that as they have so many times in our nation's past, will come down on the side of freedom and equality. >> it's clearly where the american people are in terms of all the polling. the country has moved on. it's accepted. gay marriage is -- >> no question. >> same-sex marriage is simply an accepted fact of life, and so many families across the country. yet, the risk is that this could become illegal. what happens to all of these couples? what happens to their rights? >> look. at the end of the day, again, i'm optimistic we'll win this case. as we did in the lower court and by a judge who was first appointed by ronald reagan and then later by george bush. and then won at the appellate level and now it's reached the supreme court. and there's no question where the country's headed on this

issue. in fact, the government, political leaders and the courts are catching up where the american public is on this issue. >> let's talk about what pete williams was reporting over the weekend. there are as many as 1,000 different benefits denied to gay partners where gay marriage is not allowed. >> that's exactly right. there are rights and benefits and privileges denied to lgbt, gay and lesbian couples, simply because of who they are. edie and her partner together over 40 years and unfortunately when her partner, wife, passed away, she was given a bill by the united states government for over $300,000. >> estate taxes. >> estate taxes. a straight couple would not have received that bill. it's simply unfair. if you look at the plaintiffs in this case, chris and sandy have

two twin boys and just entering high school when we filed this case and by the supreme court renders the decision, they will be entering college. their moms still can't get marry. paul and jeff, the other plaintiffs in this case, said they want to be married before they have children. think eve been together more than a decade and still don't have the right to marriage equality. >> it's called family values. >> that's exactly right. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. what political story will make headlines in 24 hours? that's next right here. bed in america. the tempur-pedic ergo system. treat yourself to the ultimate sleep experience and save up to $400 during the tempur ergo savings event. plus visit tempurpedic.com for full details on our 0% apr financing with up to five years to pay. don't wait. five-year special financing ends december 10th. visit tempurpedic.com now. tempur-pedic. the most highly recommended bed in america.

which stories makes headl e headlines in 24 hours. chris cillizza, we have a lot. we have john mccain according to josh rogan and his blog saying he's going to join the foreign relations committee. he is on arms services. he has enough seniority to try to get on to foreign relations which means he would be on the committee that is confirming

susan rice or john kerry. >> that's right. >> or whoever the nominee will be. we know the mri on rg3 was better than feared. not an acl but a sprain and we have to find out whether or not he's going to play next week against the browns. >> probably the biggest news in washington is the state of rg3. just moments ago nikki haley said she would not be appointing a placeholder and whoever she does appoint and looking at this media availability tomorrow in charleston and will be someone she believes running for the full term in 2014. it adds to the scott of pick, speculation at the moment. >> all right. and our wishes are with rg3 and thank you very much. that does it for this edition of "an dree mitchell reports." tamron hall has a look at what's next. hi. >> hi, andrea.

coming up in the next hour, president obama on the ground right now in michigan. part of a one-two punch in 24 hours including the first face to face one on one meeting with speaker boehner since 2011. now the president is turning to the public again to get the populace movement behind him. the president's comments live. colorado congresswoman bass to tell us where democrats stand and just dealing with tax reform now and the debt ceiling and entitlements later. the nation's largest labor battle also under way in michigan as the president is on the ground there. michigan could pass a bill to make it the nation's latest right to work state. the state is bracing for a day of huge protests. in fact, two days of it. "news nation" starts in three. than that though, there's a kick to it. wahlalalalallala! smooth, but crisp. it's kind of like drinking a food that's a drink, or a drink that's a food, woooooh! [ male announcer ] taste it and describe the indescribable. could've had a v8.

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